Interview with a North Korean defector
In May of this year, a 17-year-old boy in Switzerland contacted LFNKR. He is, he said, working on his thesis about North Korea. He asked us if we could arrange for him to interview a North Korean defector. So, we forwarded his list of questions to Kim Su-hyong.
Mr. Kim, who escaped from North Korea in 2017, now lives in Japan. The following questions and answers are good, basic information about North Korea and the current situation there.
Q: Could you in a few sentences describe who you are? (name, age, your profession, etc.)
A: My name is Kim Su-hyong, and I am 24 years of age. I come from North Hamgyon Province in North Korea, which borders on Siberia and China. In April 2020, I registered to enter the first year at Tokyo Metropolitan Technical Engineering High school in Tokyo, but we are currently unsure when the semester will actually begin because of the COVID-19 situation.
Q: What year did you flee North Korea?
A: In August 2017, I crossed the Tumen River that runs along the northwest border with China, and I headed to Thailand through China.
Q: How did you flee North Korea?
A: I took a train at a city beside the Japan Sea in North Hamgyon Province where I used to live and found my way to one railway station near the Korea-China border after a three-hour ride. From that point I walked for one entire day then finally arrived at the bank of the Tumen River. I noticed then that the soles of my feet, as well as both my big and little toes, were blistered and swollen. I rested quietly, hiding in the forest close to the riverbank, and waited until sunset. At 8:30 pm I started. The river is about 40 meters wide where I crossed, and after some two hours of battling the current, I finally reached the China side.
Q: Why did you flee North Korea? What was the deciding moment?
A: Back in 2013, I found that my mother was in Japan, so wanted to walk across the border right away. When I was 6 years old my parents divorced, and I have been separated from my mother since then. That’s why I was so eager to go and see my mother. However, I had long been afraid of doing this by myself, so I had taken four years to prepare carefully. I think that the moment I really decided to go forward with my plan was in 2017 when I found a close friend who kindly walked with me on this formidable and fearful road.
Q: What was your position in North Korea (elite or farmer) ? What was your profession there?
A: I was a sales assistant in a market which sold light meals such as seasoned rice rolled in dried seaweed and rice with deep-fried fish and vegetables in a light batter. These light meals are carry-on meals for passengers traveling between cities.
Q: What do you think is the biggest problem in North Korea? Is it the food? The corruption?
A: In North Korea, there is no salary system where people work and get paid. Instead, the food is distributed to the people by the government once every six months. People working at big, first- or second-class factories, or military officers receive enough food. Unfortunately, not much food reaches people outside those fortunate few. The biggest problem is that food distribution varies in its quantity and quality depending upon the bribes one can pay.
Another great problem is with education. Officially, education is free of charge for 12 years. In actual fact, however, education is very costly from kindergarten through high school graduation. Pupils whose family can afford to give bribes to teachers are well taken care of, but many cannot and so are treated less fairly.
The poorer students cannot even go to school. Only selected students from higher class families and very smart students are able to enroll in universities and colleges, but many of them can’t avoid dropping out along the way because of money problems. There is no scholarship system in North Korea. Therefore, people gain graduation status by way of bribes. They register their names only nominally at universities or colleges then buy their graduation certificates. In North Korea, people do believe that with Labor Party membership, or with an honorable discharge certificate from the military, or with a College diploma they are guaranteed a life of peace and security.
Since everyone wants such certificates, bribery has to be there.
Q: How big is the food problem in North Korea today?
A: As for food problems, people in the countryside face difficulties in getting enough to eat. I have heard that they can eat only once a day. Particularly in January to the end of May no crops, such as potatoes, are harvested and people suffer even more seriously from hunger.
I think that in urban areas people can usually get enough food to eat twice a day. I was an urban resident so I was able to eat at least twice a day.
In terms of meal quality there is no standard or model. And menus differ from one family to another. The staple food is corn.
I have never heard of Labor Party executive staff, Military cadre, or Government senior directors facing food difficulties.
Q: What do you think of the North Korean system? What do you think of the leaders?
A: I think that people who are skeptical about the national regime do exist but they dare not express their opinions. If they do, they are considered defiant toward the Government or the Labor Party and regarded as rebels. The security department (Secret Political police) members will appear within 12 hours, and that entire unacceptable family will instantly disappear. There is a whistleblowing system under which an anonymous accuser in the neighborhood or an office colleague or even a school mate is secretly appointed to be an informer to report the presence of dissidents to the Secret Police. The identities of such informers are held in strictest secrecy. Pretending to obey but secretly disobeying is a common practice among the people in order to survive in North Korea where everyone is monitored and reported.
Q: Do you think the system can still be saved?
A: I expect that the Kim Jong-un regime and his control will survive.
Q: What did you know about the rest of the world when you were still in North Korea? What were you taught?
A: In North Korea a limited few know anything about the outside world. Only senior executives of the Government or cadres of the Labor Party know about it, while most people don’t. I could describe it as a “frog in the well.” The general people don’t know the outside at all.
Q: Do North Koreans believe the Propaganda? How effective is the propaganda in your opinion?
A: I suppose people believe the government propaganda, and it is effective to some extent. They do not have any other information. So they cannot compare the difference between government propaganda and the outside world because of this lack of information. Therefore, the effect of propaganda flowing from the leader seems to be very much accepted.
Q: Does the population trust their government? Is the population still supporting their government and leader?
A: If someone says they do not believe their government, their life will end immediately. Knowing that a careless remark such as “I do not support” or “I do not agree” leads to the end of life, people never recklessly speak such ideas aloud.
Q: How’s the feeling in the population? Are they happy?
A: While I was in North Korea, I never felt that I was unhappy, even though I had a lot of troubles and hardship. Under any circumstances, people might be happy if they think that is normal. However, from my current perspective I can only say that “all the people in North Korea lead unhappy lives” because I have settled down in Japan and can see “outside the well.”
Q: Is there a certain anger in the population concerning the government?
A: I have often heard distrust expressed against followers and local leaders, but never against the supreme leader. People do understand that their life would end at that point if they voiced their real thoughts. If we take only a superficial view of the society, it is impossible for us to perceive the general people’s real feelings.
Q: Do you think that in the near future, there could be a revolution of the people of North Korea? If No, what more does it need? If yes, why couldn’t it happen yet?
A: I believe that a popular revolution will never happen in North Korea. In other countries, people get together and criticize the government and do something about it. But such incidents can never be realized there. The state monitoring system is already well established to check everyone on a person-by-person basis.
Reportedly, the 16th Army Corps rebellion case in North Hamgyon Province did occur, but the very next day both ringleaders and participants were all arrested and immediately executed. Similar cases have also taken place in other places and at other times, but all such cases are said to have failed without exception.
Q: What is holding the country together in your opinion? Is it fear and violence? Is it loyalty of the population to their leader? Is it the Propaganda?
A: It could be claimed that what is holding North Korea united together is loyalty to the national leader. But it is rather more likely that it is a result of government propaganda which gives all the children, from early childhood, a brainwashing education concerning loyalty to the Kim family. I think that is no exaggeration.